FPS General

Not suprising really. That's what optimisation does.
I wonder when the last time they did a heavy optimisation on Windows was. I bet if they took another look at it they would manage to speed up the software on PC too. There is 'always' space for improvement in complex systems.

As for the Win 8 catastrophe thing, I don't trust anything Gabe says any more anyway. He switches sides so fricken often. First he hated Dual core CPUs, then the Xbox then the PS3, then he loved the PS3 again and then loved the Mac but then hates Mac again!!!
Now it's the turn of Win 8. Has he actually explained his feelings or is it just because he thinks the Windows store will rival Steam?

Check this out: http://bobsageek.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/so-gabe-newell-slammed-his-foot-into-his-mouth-again/

Seriously? Why the hell are you trying to support windows? Face it, it's not as good as linux, the kernel isn't as fast, and, while companies are producing more drivers for it (that ISN'T linux's fault though, thats a popularity thing) things like the GUI have rapidly caught up and overtaken windows. Why can't you accept that it's better.

And why are you supporting microsoft in the first place, there a big greedy corporation?

The only reason i can think of which has caused you to support MS is that you're insecure about switching to linux because of all the times you denied it being any good but you secretly never used it. That's usually the case, so sorry if i seem to have jumped to conclusions, i'm just saying that from a user that has a windows partition, a linux partition and a hackintosh partition i think linux is the best, and actually using linux and getting into the feel of it's ease of use just makes windows seem crude.

I'm not defending Windows. I'm just pointing out the facts that a pass of optimisation would also benefit Windows, but Valve seem to be on a bit of an anti-windows at the moment.

I like the idea of linux and think that having more OS's is a very good thing as it stops any of the OS developers from getting lazy and keep moving forwards. This is a 'good' thing for consumers.

I however don't agree that linux is better. I accept that you do, but also accept that these things are all down to personal tastes, experiences and requirements. I have tried linux on a seperate partition (admitted not for quite a while now) and for me it wasn't right. I found that it just didn't run the programs that I wanted and for me was much harder to fix anything that went wrong (maybe that's due to me being so used to how Windows does things). Yes, I could find variations of the software I use often (except for any games I wanted to play at the time), and I could have spent ages figuring out how to fix all the issues I had, but tbh I have more to do in life. I just want to boot up and use the software I already know. For me, for now, that means Windows.
Sorry, if you don't agree, but everyone is different and likes different things. If they weren't linux would never have been created.

I'm also unsure how you can call MS greedy. They are a company and as such they exist to make money. MS do not do anything more 'greedy' than any other large company. All I can imagine is that your one of these anti-corporate type people who see every large company as evil and greedy, but hey, that's your opinion and that's fine.

First, the point of the optimizing; the point OP was saying that DESPITE the fact that windows HAS had more attention than linux (and it's not just "been a while" they obviously spent more time on it) it had lower FPS.

Next, i've been using windows, mac and linux since i was 12, and i would say linux is easiest, and i've got many of my friends into linux, and they all rave about it, if you haven't used it in a while that might be reasoning, because the linux world progresses much faster than the windows world.

If you can't see why microsoft are greedy then actually i've reached a stump point at which i don't really think you're worth my time. Sorry to say this, but use your cranium for something useful. It's not hard to see why microsoft are greedy. Seriously.

My cranium is being used for something useful thanks, it's protecting my brain which is also doing plenty of useful things including working at a software company, running my own business and bringing up 3 young children.

Money making for businesses is not greed. It's business. The whole point of business is to make money. They can only make money from things if people are willing to pay for it and if they are why should the business do anything to make themselves less money (i.e. be less greedy)?

The 'If you can't see why microsoft are greedy' is just a easy way of you getting around the fact that you can't think of any real reason why MS are greedy.

As you have said you have used linux since you were 12, which isn't actually of any use in this conversation as I have no idea how old you are, but by the way you have phrased it I guess that means you have used it for quite a long time. I however don't have the luxury of being able to invest my time in trying to learn a new OS and tool set.

I use Windows and applications that are not on linux in my day to day job and for my own business that I run out of work hours. These both involve a lot of communication between myself and my clients (who also use Windows) and so unless all of those move over to linux too, it is not feasible or sensible to switch to linux. I have also been trained (self and professionally) in Windows software development and in the use of many Windows tools. To turn my back on this now would also not be a sensible thing to do. I now also have 3 young children, so the little time I have left in the week is used to be with them and enjoy them growing up rather than spent trying to learn linux and the new software I'd have to learn on that OS. All of that is the main reasoning why I am unwilling to move to linux. As I have said I think it's good that their are multiple OS's out there, but linux is just not for me at this moment in time.

You want real reasons, how about how microsoft used directX to keep games away from other platforms? How about how you can't chose an ID for xbox live because they want that extra bit of money? How about charging 100$ for their OS? How about stealing the market for business by creating vicious cycles which YOU are a victim of. How about using memory management models from the linux kernel in there own OS, then millions of users rejoicing as windows 7 is faster, even though thats simply because they use what has been slaved over for FREE by other people in the community?

I'm 15. Which does mean i've only been using linux for 3 years. But i think thats MORE evidence that linux is a great OS. For all my life i've had to use windows. Then when i discovered linux, it's impossible to go back without feeling microsoft are ripping you off.

I've coped fine on linux, theres this neat little program called WINE. And it works damn well. Also, linux has more compatibility than windows, one can get into a windows network from a linux machine, but not a linux network from a windows machine - without tinkering.

I originally didn't post these because from the sounds of it you might not actually be able to cope with it.

EDIT; also, one of the problems with windows being used so much in society is that children become sufferers of the doctrine of capitalism. So few children are exposed to linux, which means that the community can't grow. If everyone turns their backs to it, as if it is some sort of chore to use (yes, btw, you seem to be under the impression that linux is difficult to use/get used to. That would be an unfortunate product of being used to a cumbersome OS like windows.)

EDIT2: I do a lot of programming, don't bother straining yourself to believe that though, (*sarcasm*), in fact, i recently got a work experience program with a company which did embedded software engineering. They allowed me to write some really low level stuff to run on some sparc machines they have. I was reassured to hear from real developers that they only really used windows where the company MADE them (some deals with microsoft - also evil), and they used linux for the most part. In fact, having done a lot of programming, thats another thing that annoys me about windows. It follows pretty much nothing in standards. Why can't i use POSIX libraries OOB? Why is it they have to have a different line ending type? Why are all the shell commands different? Whats wrong with using bash like everyone else?

EDIT3: Oh yh the answer to those last questions in EDIT2; why follow standards when we can force people NOT to use ANY other OS.

Those reasons still do not prove they are greedy. Yes, they are trying to make it hard for you to use other platforms. If they didn't you might! That is not good business sense. Locking people into a system is an excellent business strategy and has nothing to do with greed. The world of business and the world in general is not full of happy, friendly bunnies. It's actually quite cut throat and nasty. It may seem unfair to you, but that's how the world works. You are still young, but you'll get used to it.

Also, it doesn't strain me to believe you do a lot of programming, why would it? I started in basic (back in the day at the age of 6) and am currently teaching my kids and know lot's of young and very adept coders.

Anyway, I'm gonna drop this thread as it has gone way off track. All I pointed out was that another pass of optimisations for Windows would probably reduce the difference between OS's as complex systems can always be optimised. If you are a decent programmer as you imply, then you should also know this to be true.

Paragraph 1: Please don't condescend me, you think i don't realize that people fuck each other over for money? Of course i realize. But they're still evil. And not EVERY company is evil, here are some examples; wolfiregames, yes they are trying to get money, yes, the games they make cost a lot. But they support lots of platforms, they don't go out of their way to fill their stuff with messed up DRM stuff. They are a GOOD company; Mojang, similarly, working on all platforms, respecting people rather than copyright (take a look at notch's tumblr), when did they try to sue celeron55? (dev for minetest, a popular minecraft clone), when did they try to sue modders? Answer: never. Why? Because they care about humans, not just money.

Paragraph 2: Sounds like dream society :D, i'd love to live there, the reason i say strain is simply because most people where i live DO ignore me. And i've hardly been brought up into a technological family, so i don't blame them.

Paragraph 3: Rokey dokey, bye bye there, and nice debating.
Paragraph 3 pt2: The point i was making is that you need to accept that windows has it's optimization, and i don't think you're really understanding this, you seem fixated that the only reason linux performed better is because it's been optimized more. The point OP was making was that actually L4D2 linux has been optimized less than for windows. Personnally i think it's not just linux. While i'm very familiar with linux being faster, i think openGL is significantly better too. So that probably helps. Read more from wolfire games, an example of a company which isn't evil. I strongly urge you to read this article about openGL and directX.

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX

Oh no, only 270fps!  Pffff.  I'm not switching OS based on one game. 

You don't sound like you've used linux.

I have a linux drive, a mac (hackintosh) drive and a windows drive on my PC, and even though my linux drive is the most clogged with stuff, it runs games much faster than windows, in fact, for most games (xonotic, amnesia, overgrowth, minecraft) i can't even run them on the same graphics settings as on linux because they just wont run fast enough.